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GSA is looking for details on federal orders. That information is within the government. I think GSA needs to look at its own systems and establish a way that they can make use of the information currently in their belongings (GSA Search Engine Ranker).

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Mr. Stanford, some have actually argued that the GSA will use this new information to make companies-- require them to decrease their prices if they feel the vendor is no longer using a competitive price. Little organization margins, as many of you pointed out, are exceptionally low and they, at times, can not afford bulk discounts like the huge business.

Either the small business would leave the federal market if they might no longer bear the small margins to make sure they were profitable. Or, as in the case for some small companies that rely 80-90 percent of profits in the federal market, they would go out of business.

And my last question, and I think many of you discussed this, has to do with the inability of GSA to actually figure this thing out themselves due to their old computer system. I just wanted to dig a little much deeper, and possibly, Mr. Horan, you can invest some time talking about that comment you made in your testimony about it would be just easier for them to update their system so that they can track and keep track of the info that they are requesting on their side, rather than leave it to the problem of the small businesses.

HORAN. Yeah. I am not particular it will be much easier, however it will be certainly-- they would need to face some of the same intricacies that they are prepared to trouble contractors. The point I was attempting to make is that GSA, most likely preparing for the criticism that they are enforcing this responsibility on professionals, took an appearance at their system and indicated in the function itself the preference to the rule changes that their systems would need changes since all this information is not consisted of in a single area and they would have to undergo the effort.

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So they were reluctant to take that cost regardless of the information being equally readily available to GSA as the professionals, and want to impose that on contractors. GSA having access to this details though might readily produce a database or customize databases to do exactly what they desire to do.

Mr. TAKAI. Mr. WALDRON. I do not understand if it is the irony of the scenario or not, is that GSA is going to have to invest money to construct systems in any event.

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So why do they not have a look internally and see what is most effective for them, for the government to attempt to find out to manage its own information. Since they are going to have to develop systems. We are talking, when you speak about monthly reporting across the GSA Schedules program, you are talking of numerous thousands of deals, millions and millions of information elements to be reported, accessed, gathered.



Simply a couple other points. With regard to the access, the concern was great about, you know, with recent events, security of the private details, you know, there is even another location, and GSA did not-- I believe the general public meeting that was held on the guideline, they got an appreciation of the level of concern across market with regard to this concern, and even because context they have professionals supporting their effort.

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And last but not least, just a believed on the concern about whether people would have to leave, you understand, if they are informed lower your cost, we get reports frequently of business being asked to either lower their rate or eliminate the product from the contract. And the GSA management is taking the position that that is not, and they have, to their credit, have said that is not the goal here from their point of view, however at the working level and the operational level, contracting officers practically daily are asking business to either lower their cost due to the fact that they discovered a lower rate on a horizontal comparison.

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Mr. TAKAI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman HANNA. Do you suggest to say-- is that not in a weird method collusion, understanding somebody else's price and calling somebody else and saying-- another bidder for the very same product and stating, "You are too high, lower your price"? I indicate, it is a harsh word but-- Mr. GSA SER.

I would say it is misguided. GSA SER Services. I believe it is bad procurement policy since in this concern, you get into the relative conditions, and is somebody an authorized reseller; are they not a licensed reseller? Is it a gray market item; is it not? These are things-- due persistent things that GSA needs to be looking at.

And it looks like GSA is focusing a lot on the agreement level cost at this level. When the price is paid is at the task order level, which is the level below competitors under the agreements. And the focus is more on this rather than let us get the best, you know, an excellent cost and a best worth service at the task order level.

How do you enhance, streamline, and welcome competitors at the task order level so that the American individuals, consumer firms get finest worth products and options-- business finest items and options. Chairman HANNA. They are asking for something that they are not prepared to take from a group of specialists who will incur enormous expenditure and ultimately GSA would also sustain an enormous cost to accept this, and yet already confesses it does not have the capacity really to utilize it.

WALDRON. I think it is reasonable to say that a lot more thought needs to go into the existing technique. Our members oppose this rule. We believe GSA must start over from scratch and look internally. Our written testimony consists of a number of different recommendations. I will point to one. GSA conducting its own internal pilot of collecting its own info or other details of other firms and seeing how-- to start with, what information elements are really crucial? And much of what is being gathered disregards the best worth context or the nexus of it and terms that drive price (GSA SER).

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And to the extent they are utilizing it to compare to contract prices, as I said earlier in the testament and we explain in our composed testament, that is apples and, I do not understand, watermelons. It is such a complete distinction in terms of the terms and conditions. GSA Search Engine Ranker Services.

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